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	<title>EcBlogue: A Classics Blog</title>
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	<description>paulo maiora blogamus...</description>
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		<title>EcBlogue: A Classics Blog</title>
		<link>https://classicsblogging.wordpress.com</link>
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		<title>Classics Blogging on Blog Divided</title>
		<link>https://classicsblogging.wordpress.com/2010/08/03/classics-blogging-on-blog-divided/</link>
		<comments>https://classicsblogging.wordpress.com/2010/08/03/classics-blogging-on-blog-divided/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Aug 2010 19:26:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Rob</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Uncategorized]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://classicsblogging.wordpress.com/?p=431</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Although EcBlogue has been fairly dormant recently, since the middle of last month I&#8217;ve been contributing classics-related blog posts to Blog Divided, the blog of the House Divided Civil War Research Engine at Dickinson College.  The blog is intended as a resource for those teaching and studying the period 1840-1880.  My posts are on the [...]<img alt="" border="0" src="http://stats.wordpress.com/b.gif?host=classicsblogging.wordpress.com&amp;blog=5698138&amp;post=431&amp;subd=classicsblogging&amp;ref=&amp;feed=1" width="1" height="1" />]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Although <em>EcBlogue</em> has been fairly dormant recently, since the middle of last month I&#8217;ve been contributing <a href="http://housedivided.dickinson.edu/sites/blogdivided/author/hardyr/">classics-related blog posts</a> to <a href="http://housedivided.dickinson.edu/sites/blogdivided/">Blog Divided</a>, the blog of the <a href="http://hd.housedivided.dickinson.edu">House Divided Civil War Research Engine</a> at Dickinson College.  The blog is intended as a resource for those teaching and studying the period 1840-1880.  My posts are on the classics in American culture and education during that period.  I invite you to check out House Divided, and my blog posts in general.  </p>
<p>So far, I&#8217;ve posted on Generals O.O. Howard and Joshua Lawrence Chamberlain and classical education, Robert Montgomery Bird&#8217;s antebellum drama <em>The Gladiator</em>, the classical courtship of Lucretia and James Garfield, and the Civil War career of classicist Basil Lanneau Gildersleeve.  My next post will focus on William Sanders Scarborough.</p>
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			<media:title type="html">Rob</media:title>
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		<title>America &amp; the Classics, Week I</title>
		<link>https://classicsblogging.wordpress.com/2010/03/24/america-the-classics-week-i/</link>
		<comments>https://classicsblogging.wordpress.com/2010/03/24/america-the-classics-week-i/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Mar 2010 19:42:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Rob</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Classical Tradition]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://classicsblogging.wordpress.com/?p=425</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[This spring I&#8217;m teaching a course for the Cannon Valley Elder Collegium (CVEC) called &#8220;America and the Classics.&#8221;  The eight-week course will focus primarily on the influence of the classics on the Founders, with some illustrated lectures on Greek Revival architecture and other American uses of classical iconography.  Our textbook will be Carl J. Richard&#8217;s [...]<img alt="" border="0" src="http://stats.wordpress.com/b.gif?host=classicsblogging.wordpress.com&amp;blog=5698138&amp;post=425&amp;subd=classicsblogging&amp;ref=&amp;feed=1" width="1" height="1" />]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This spring I&#8217;m teaching a course for the <a href="http://www.cvec.org">Cannon Valley Elder Collegium</a> (CVEC) called &#8220;America and the Classics.&#8221;  The eight-week course will focus primarily on the influence of the classics on the Founders, with some illustrated lectures on Greek Revival architecture and other American uses of classical iconography.  Our textbook will be Carl J. Richard&#8217;s <em>Greeks and Romans Bearing Gifts: How the Ancients Inspired the Founding Fathers</em> (Rowman and Littlefield 2009), with supplemental primary readings. </p>
<p><a href="http://classicsblogging.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/the-study-of-classics.pdf">Week I Primary Readings</a></p>
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			<media:title type="html">Rob</media:title>
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		<title>Rome on Cable, Viewing, and Ethics</title>
		<link>https://classicsblogging.wordpress.com/2010/03/06/rome-on-cable-viewing-and-ethics/</link>
		<comments>https://classicsblogging.wordpress.com/2010/03/06/rome-on-cable-viewing-and-ethics/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Mar 2010 21:24:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>seaneaston</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Classics in Popular Culture]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://classicsblogging.wordpress.com/?p=412</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I was just putting a couple of thoughts on facebook regarding HBO’s Rome, noting that I like the first season for the most part, albeit with reservations, such as its allowance for heterosexual desire to blossom into something redemptive, while same-sex desire figures exclusively in predatory relationships, the sexism informing the series’ opportunistic representations of [...]<img alt="" border="0" src="http://stats.wordpress.com/b.gif?host=classicsblogging.wordpress.com&amp;blog=5698138&amp;post=412&amp;subd=classicsblogging&amp;ref=&amp;feed=1" width="1" height="1" />]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was just putting a couple of thoughts on facebook regarding HBO’s Rome,  noting that I like the first season for the most part, albeit with reservations, such as its allowance for heterosexual desire to blossom into something redemptive, while same-sex desire figures exclusively in predatory relationships, the sexism informing the series’ opportunistic representations of sex, women, etc.  I imagine that the idea of a Roman-themed drama appealed especially to the series creators as an opportunity to unshackle themselves from many of the ethical constraints with which they would otherwise have to work.  For example, a story thread I ‘liked’:  Pullo desires a slave of Vorenus and (if I remember correctly) wants to buy her freedom.  The slave, unaware of Pullo’s motives, informs a fellow slave with whom she already has a relationship — something Pullo does not know. A gentle-seeming sort, her lover goes to thank Pullo in humble fashion for his kindness. Enraged that the object of his desire already loves and is loved by another, Pullo promptly beats him to death.  Vorenus is extremely upset — not that this gentle member of his house was brutally murdered, but at the disrespect Pullo showed to his house by ransacking its property in such fashion.  Eventually, of course, the two main characters made up, Pullo wins over the slave whom he desires, and the story continues.   As reprehensible as the conduct was,  I thought the episode confronted audiences with an important perspective on how power relations shape perceptions of morality and humanity — a perspective other Roman dramas tend to avoid (Gladiator, etc.).  I imagine the Roman scenario offered the series creators not so much the opportunity to educate as a way to explore and exploit the charismatically immoral regions of the modern male adventuring protagonist in ways otherwise unavailable.  For example, one episode of the Sopranos features the murder of a 20 year old stripper by Joe Pantaliano’s character.  Soprano henchman Paulie classifies it (if I recall) as  ‘totally out of line’ — primarily because the act was disrespectful to the syndicate owned strip club, in the parking lot of which the murder occurred.  The Roman scenario enables the writers to depict such responses as culturally normative, rather than criminally deviant, and thereby to retain story elements they might otherwise need to forfeit, such as the characters&#8217; capacity to enjoy positively depicted emotional relationships, etc.  And now there is Spartacus: Blood and Sand.  At times I have the uncomfortable feeling that, in the cause of finding what’s worthwhile about a film/show/etc.,  I have very nearly extirpated any capacity my senses of aesthetic and moral dislike might have otherwise retained to direct my viewing.  Accordingly, I have thus far watched every episode of this show, but I have to say that finding anything redeeming about it has not been easy for me.  It seems to have clearly taken Rome (or Capua in this case) in its traditional role as a site for sex and violence spectacle to a new level in which story functions as a gossamer-thin tissue wafting almost invisibly around the horror-porn core of the show.  A meaningful advancement of the plot or a new dimension to a character — in this show these seem like the true instances of spectacle flashing up suddenly and unexpectedly against a background drone of sex and slaughter.  Then again, maybe I’m missing something?</p>
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			<media:title type="html">Seán</media:title>
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		<title>In the Double Minority</title>
		<link>https://classicsblogging.wordpress.com/2009/11/03/in-the-double-minority/</link>
		<comments>https://classicsblogging.wordpress.com/2009/11/03/in-the-double-minority/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Nov 2009 12:57:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Rob</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Uncategorized]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://classicsblogging.wordpress.com/?p=409</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Novelist Philip Roth recently predicted that within twenty-five years, reading novels will be a &#8220;cultic&#8221; activity, reserved for an enthusiastic minority who retain the attention span for novel reading and are able to resist the allure of the big and small screens.  Roth said: I think it&#8217;s going to be cultic. I think always people [...]<img alt="" border="0" src="http://stats.wordpress.com/b.gif?host=classicsblogging.wordpress.com&amp;blog=5698138&amp;post=409&amp;subd=classicsblogging&amp;ref=&amp;feed=1" width="1" height="1" />]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Novelist Philip Roth recently predicted that within twenty-five years, reading novels will be a &#8220;cultic&#8221; activity, reserved for an enthusiastic minority who retain the attention span for novel reading and are able to resist the allure of the big and small screens.  Roth said:</p>
<blockquote><p>I think it&#8217;s going to be cultic. I think always people will be reading them but it will be a small group of people. <strong>Maybe more people than now read Latin poetry</strong>, but somewhere in that range.</p></blockquote>
<p>You can read the rest of the story <a href="http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2009/oct/26/philip-roth-novel-minority-cult">here</a>.</p>
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			<media:title type="html">Rob</media:title>
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		<title>Girls Reading Vergil</title>
		<link>https://classicsblogging.wordpress.com/2009/10/29/girls-reading-vergil/</link>
		<comments>https://classicsblogging.wordpress.com/2009/10/29/girls-reading-vergil/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Oct 2009 13:42:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Rob</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Uncategorized]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://classicsblogging.wordpress.com/?p=406</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Things have been rather quiet here lately.  The term is limping along.  At Carleton, we&#8217;re in week 7 of our nine-and-a-half week term.  This fall, the flu is taking full advantage of the stressed and sleep-deprived student body.  As of this morning, 30% of my Latin 101 class is out with a reported case of [...]<img alt="" border="0" src="http://stats.wordpress.com/b.gif?host=classicsblogging.wordpress.com&amp;blog=5698138&amp;post=406&amp;subd=classicsblogging&amp;ref=&amp;feed=1" width="1" height="1" />]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Things have been rather quiet here lately.  The term is limping along.  At Carleton, we&#8217;re in week 7 of our nine-and-a-half week term.  This fall, the flu is taking full advantage of the stressed and sleep-deprived student body.  As of this morning, 30% of my Latin 101 class is out with a reported case of the flu.</p>
<p>To pass the time until the crisis has passed and some original content becomes available, here&#8217;s a an article I published in <em>New England Classical Journal</em> about Latin in the Progressive Era, focusing specifically on an episode in Jean Webster&#8217;s novel for girls, <em>Just Patty</em> (1911).  The article is a downloadable PDF file.</p>
<p>&#8220;<a href="http://classicsblogging.files.wordpress.com/2009/10/girls-reading-virgil.pdf">Girls Reading Vergil: Stories of Latin and Progressive Education</a>.&#8221; Originally published in <em>New England Classical Journal</em> 32.2 (May 2006).  Copyright © 2006 by Rob Hardy.</p>
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			<media:title type="html">Rob</media:title>
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		<title>The Ancient Romans on Eating Locally</title>
		<link>https://classicsblogging.wordpress.com/2009/09/21/romans-eating-locally/</link>
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		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Sep 2009 21:37:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Rob</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Uncategorized]]></category>

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		<description><![CDATA[Emperor Elagabalus. It was commonplace in Latin poetry that the Golden Age came to a decisive end when humans started to build ships and sail across the sea. In the good old days, men stayed at home and plowed the earth and ate the produce of their own fields. In his tragedy Medea, Seneca (d. [...]<img alt="" border="0" src="http://stats.wordpress.com/b.gif?host=classicsblogging.wordpress.com&amp;blog=5698138&amp;post=404&amp;subd=classicsblogging&amp;ref=&amp;feed=1" width="1" height="1" />]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_YftE0_vazVQ/SreDhM-GwBI/AAAAAAAADO8/mEZgzQZU_No/s1600-h/elagabalus.jpeg"><img style="float:left;cursor:pointer;width:164px;height:200px;margin:0 10px 10px 0;" src="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_YftE0_vazVQ/SreDhM-GwBI/AAAAAAAADO8/mEZgzQZU_No/s200/elagabalus.jpeg" border="0" alt="" /></a><span style="font-size:x-small;">Emperor Elagabalus.</p>
<p></span>It was commonplace in Latin poetry that the Golden Age came to a decisive end when humans started to build ships and sail across the sea. In the good old days, men stayed at home and plowed the earth and ate the produce of their own fields. In his tragedy <span style="font-style:italic;">Medea</span>, Seneca (d. 65 CE) writes: &#8220;Then every man inactive kept to his own shores and lived to old age on ancestral fields, rich with but little, knowing no wealth save what his home soil had yielded.&#8221; The fall from grace came when men cut down trees to fashion ships, transgressing the natural limits that the gods had established. As Horace (d. 8 CE) writes: &#8220;In vain did a provident god separate the lands with a disconnecting sea, if ungodly ships still bound across the forbidden depths.&#8221;</p>
<p>Ships made possible trade with distant lands, and the Romans no longer had to rely on the produce of their own fields. Corn (wheat) flowed in from the provinces to feed the Roman populace. All boundaries had been dissolved. Seneca writes: &#8220;All bounds have been removed, cities have set their walls in new lands, and the world, now passable throughout, has left nothing where it once had place: the Indian drinks of the cold Arazes, the Persians quaff the Elbe and the Rhine. &#8221; Moralists like Horace and Seneca saw that the Romans had abandoned the virtues of the agrarian ancestors for luxury and license.</p>
<p>Food was a clear marker of the fall from ancient Roman virtue.  The Stoic philosopher Seneca is obsessed with food.  In his <span style="font-style:italic;">Moral Epistles</span>, he writes about the rise in obesity in Rome, comparing his contemporaries with their more abstemious ancestors: &#8220;[In those days] men&#8217;s bodies were still sound and strong; their food was light and not spoiled by art and luxury, whereas when they began to seek dishes not for the sake of removing, but of rousing, the appetite, and devised countless sauces to whet their gluttony, —then what before was nourishment to a hungry man became a burden to the full stomach.&#8221;</p>
<p>In <span style="font-style:italic;">The Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire</span>, Gibbon pauses to dwell on the decadence of the early third-century emperor Elagabalus. First on the list of his vices was that he liked to &#8220;confound the order of seasons and climates.&#8221; In other words, he ate foods out of season, and imported from great distances. In a footnote, Gibbon writes: &#8220;He would never eat sea-fish except at a great distance from the sea&#8230;&#8221;</p>
<p>The <span style="font-style:italic;">Historia Augusta, </span><span>Gibbon&#8217;s source,</span> records a long list of outlandish foods consumed by Elagabalus, including peacock tongues and ostrich brains. The late Roman cookbook attributed to Apicius includes this recipe for Roasted Flamingo: &#8220;Pluck the flamingo, wash it, truss it, put it in a pot; add water, salt, dill, and a bit of vinegar. When it is half cooked, tie together a bouquet of leeks and coriander and cook together with the flamingo. When it is almost cooked, add <span style="font-style:italic;">defrutum</span> [reduced wine] for color. In a mortar put pepper, cumin, coriander, silphium root, mint, and rue; grind, moisten with vinegar, add dates, and poor on cooking broth. Empty into the same pot and thicken with starch. Pour the sauce over the flamingo and serve. Do the same for parrot.&#8221;*</p>
<p>Even if you manage to procure a flamingo for roasting, you won&#8217;t find silphium root. The exotic and expensive herb, imported by the Romans from Syria, went extinct during the reign of Nero. Poor dyspeptic Seneca was part of the last generation to enjoy the taste of silphium root in his food.</p>
<p><span style="font-size:x-small;">*From Ilaria Gozzini Giacosa, <span style="font-style:italic;">A Taste of Ancient Rome (</span>University of Chicago Press, 1992),  120.</span></p>
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			<media:title type="html">Rob</media:title>
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		<title>The Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire</title>
		<link>https://classicsblogging.wordpress.com/2009/09/19/the-decline-and-fall-of-the-roman-empire/</link>
		<comments>https://classicsblogging.wordpress.com/2009/09/19/the-decline-and-fall-of-the-roman-empire/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Sep 2009 16:50:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Rob</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Uncategorized]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://classicsblogging.wordpress.com/?p=401</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Middlemarch is back on the shelf, and my next big read is Edward Gibbon&#8217;s The History of the Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire. Gibbon&#8217;s monumental work originally appeared in six volumes between 1776 and 1788, and is available in various modern editions, including the hefty three-volume Penguin edition elegantly introduced and edited by [...]<img alt="" border="0" src="http://stats.wordpress.com/b.gif?host=classicsblogging.wordpress.com&amp;blog=5698138&amp;post=401&amp;subd=classicsblogging&amp;ref=&amp;feed=1" width="1" height="1" />]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_YftE0_vazVQ/SrP23g5tOQI/AAAAAAAADOU/kEwfgBqDaBQ/s1600-h/Gibbon01.jpg"><img style="display:block;text-align:center;cursor:pointer;width:384px;height:318px;margin:0 auto 10px;" src="http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_YftE0_vazVQ/SrP23g5tOQI/AAAAAAAADOU/kEwfgBqDaBQ/s400/Gibbon01.jpg" border="0" alt="" /></a><br />
<span style="font-style:italic;">Middlemarch </span>is back on the shelf, and my next big read is Edward Gibbon&#8217;s <span style="font-style:italic;">The History of the Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire.</span> Gibbon&#8217;s monumental work originally appeared in six volumes between 1776 and 1788, and is available in various modern editions, including the hefty three-volume Penguin edition elegantly introduced and edited by David Womersley. Pictured above is the 1114-page first volume.</p>
<p>There are some interesting affinities between George Eliot, the philosophic novelist, and Gibbon, the philosophic historian. Both probe into the dark recesses of human motivation; both approach their subjects with an equal measure of irony and sympathy. David Womersley, in his introduction, writes: &#8220;[T]he belief in unintended consequences naturally led the philosophic historian to form surprisingly nuanced judgements prompted by unexpectedly broad sympathies&#8230; Individuals and institutions, which he could only condemn as in themselves criminal or perverse, at moments contributed positively to human society, while, in obedience to the same principle, those he admired or loved may, despite their best endeavours, have exerted a harmful influence&#8221; (xxiii).</p>
<p>Thus Gibbon praises and admires the good emperor Marcus Aurelius, but shows us that, through his indulgence as a father, Marcus bequeathed to Rome the troubled reign of his unstable son Commodus. On the other hand, he dates the beginning of the end of Rome to the reign of the murderous and self-interested Septimius Severus, who temporarily restored a measure of peace and justice to the empire.</p>
<p>Of Marcus Aurelius, Gibbon writes: &#8220;The mildness of Marcus, which the rigid discipline of the Stoics was unable to eradicate, formed, at the same time, the most amiable, and the only defective, part of his character&#8221; (108). This is typical of Gibbon&#8217;s style, contrasting, in the same sentence, a positive and negative assessment of a person&#8217;s character or actions. &#8220;The most <span style="font-style:italic;">amiable</span>, but only <span style="font-style:italic;">defective</span>, part of his character.&#8221; There&#8217;s a kind of dizzying, dazzling even-handedness about Gibbon as he performs his stylistic juggling act, making judgments while seeming to keep judgment suspended in the air.</p>
<p>Cross-posted on <em>Rough Draft.</em></p>
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			<media:title type="html">Rob</media:title>
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		<title>Hipparchus</title>
		<link>https://classicsblogging.wordpress.com/2009/09/10/hipparchus/</link>
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		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Sep 2009 13:45:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Clara</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Platonic Diablogging]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://classicsblogging.wordpress.com/?p=398</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[This is an interesting little dialogue.  I&#8217;d encountered bits of it, as it is one of the sources (besides Herodotus and Thucydides) for the tyrannicides Harmodius and Aristogeiton, and it is also a source that tells us something about the herms which my 415 project has me interested in.  So the middle part of the [...]<img alt="" border="0" src="http://stats.wordpress.com/b.gif?host=classicsblogging.wordpress.com&amp;blog=5698138&amp;post=398&amp;subd=classicsblogging&amp;ref=&amp;feed=1" width="1" height="1" />]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is an interesting little dialogue.  I&#8217;d encountered bits of it, as it is one of the sources (besides Herodotus and Thucydides) for the tyrannicides Harmodius and Aristogeiton, and it is also a source that tells us something about the <em>herms</em> which my 415 project has me interested in.  So the middle part of the dialogue, about Hipparchus, was familiar to me.  But I&#8217;d never read the full context.</p>
<p><span id="more-398"></span>The subtitle for this one is &#8220;lover of gain&#8221; as it is this term (<em>philokerdes</em>) Socrates and an unnamed friend set out to define.  The term is derogatory for the Athenians as it is for us (although we don&#8217;t have a single word for this, do we?).  The dialogue shows up the paradox here: gain is of course good, so are we all not lovers of gain?  The friend keeps trying to shift the definition to show that it&#8217;s a bad thing, but Socrates refutes each attempt.</p>
<p>The Hipparchus story is attached only because of the wise saying &#8220;don&#8217;t deceive a friend&#8221; found on a herm; Hipparchus set up the herms with their wise sayings, and Socrates (accused of deception by his interlocutor) denies that he would ever disobey the saying.  But the digression is really interesting for a couple of reasons.  First, because on Socrates&#8217; account the tyrannicides didn&#8217;t simply act because of a love rivalry gone wrong (as in Thucydides&#8217; narrative), but rather because of an <em>educational </em>rivalry.  Harmodius was in love with a boy who at first thought him a good teacher, but then when he encountered Hipparchus thought him wiser; Harmodius therefore plotted with Aristogeiton to eliminate his rival in wisdom!</p>
<p>This is cute, and probably a little tongue-in-cheek.  But lurking in back of Socrates&#8217; alternate story, as well as the larger dialogue, are some really interesting class issues.  Socrates&#8217; Hipparchus may be the sole ruler of Athens, but he is educated and enlightened, and cares deeply about educating all his citizens &#8212; those in the countryside as well as those in the city.  His educational program is in fact superior to those of the regular citizens, Harmodius and Aristogeiton.  Score one for the aristocrats.  (Contrast Thucydides&#8217; version, which seems much more to democratize the normally elite erastes-eromenons relationship, and mobilize it in the service of political rights for all classes; Virginia Wohl&#8217;s take on this is really interesting.)</p>
<p>But the whole dialogue seems to lean in a different (much less characteristically Socratic) direction.  The negative charge <em>philokerdes </em>seems made for aristocrats, with old money, to level against upstart tradesmen.  One definition attempted is this: &#8220;The right view of the lover of gain is that he is the one who concerns himself with, and thinks fit to make gain from, things from which honest men (<em>hoi chrestoi</em>) do not dare to make gain&#8221; (227d).  <em>Chrestoi </em>is notoriously code for aristocrats; the &#8220;useful&#8221; men who benefit the city with their wealth and intelligence; it is commonly contrasted with <em>poneroi </em>which literally means &#8220;wretched&#8221; but generally means poor.  <em>Philokerdes </em>becomes an instrument of social control &#8212; a means for the current elite to beat back competitors for their place in society.</p>
<p>Now Socrates&#8217; questioning of the &#8220;friend&#8221; here doesn&#8217;t of course make this charge, but the exposure of confusion over the moral value of &#8220;gain&#8221; certainly might lead down that path.  But along the road we&#8217;d find one of Hipparchus&#8217; herms, reminding us of the excellence of the nobility after all!</p>
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			<media:title type="html">Clara</media:title>
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		<title>Lysis</title>
		<link>https://classicsblogging.wordpress.com/2009/09/09/lysis/</link>
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		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Sep 2009 02:45:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Clara</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Platonic Diablogging]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://classicsblogging.wordpress.com/?p=396</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#8217;ve been delaying blogging on the Lysis because I&#8217;m not sure what to make of it.  It&#8217;s odd!  The subtitle is &#8220;On Friendship&#8221; (philia), and that&#8217;s what the bulk of it is about, but the frame is much more concerned with eros.  Socrates visits a wrestling-school and finds a young man besotted by a boy [...]<img alt="" border="0" src="http://stats.wordpress.com/b.gif?host=classicsblogging.wordpress.com&amp;blog=5698138&amp;post=396&amp;subd=classicsblogging&amp;ref=&amp;feed=1" width="1" height="1" />]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve been delaying blogging on the <em>Lysis </em>because I&#8217;m not sure what to make of it.  It&#8217;s odd!  The subtitle is &#8220;On Friendship&#8221; (<em>philia</em>), and that&#8217;s what the bulk of it is about, but the frame is much more concerned with <em>eros</em>.  Socrates visits a wrestling-school and finds a young man besotted by a boy (he is described as &#8220;quite young&#8221; and designated a <em>pais</em>; but how old?  10? 12?).  The initial part of the dialogue involves Socrates instructing the young man how best to go about wooing his favorite.  It is only in this context, as he demonstrates how Hippothales should converse with his beloved Lysis, that we get the discussion about friendship.<span id="more-396"></span></p>
<p>Even this discussion begins elsewhere, with Socrates showing the boy that he is ignorant and in need of a guide.  But when the boy has been convinced of this, his pal (and age-mate) Menexenus returns to the scene, and Lysis quietly asks Socrates to ask Menexenus the same sorts of questions.  At this point begins the discussion of friendship.</p>
<p>Part of the reason I don&#8217;t know how to respond to the dialogue is that Socrates really seems to be cheating through lots of this &#8212; to be purposefully confusing, or deceptive, in his argument.  And part of the difficulty is probably that <em>philia </em>covers a broader semantic range than &#8220;friendship&#8221; and Socrates sneakily shifts from one sense to another throughout the dialogue.  Thus he can say that one&#8217;s body is a &#8220;friend&#8221; to medicine for the sake of health, and that health, as it is good, is also &#8220;a friend&#8221; &#8212; but of course using these abstracts takes the discussion far from what I would consider &#8220;friendship.&#8221;</p>
<p>So while other dialogues, even when I haven&#8217;t closely followed the argument or when I disagree with parts, have given me a sense of an important set of ideas being debated, this one really didn&#8217;t.  My Loeb claims that &#8220;we learn how large and morally important is the question that we have been discussing&#8221; but I just don&#8217;t see it; the dialogue doesn&#8217;t strike me as showing that at all.  And the relationship between <em>eros </em>and <em>philia</em> which I was initially hoping might be clarified is only glancingly touched upon.  So anyone who can let me know what I&#8217;m missing here should chime right in!</p>
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		<title>The Laches</title>
		<link>https://classicsblogging.wordpress.com/2009/09/07/the-laches/</link>
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		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Sep 2009 15:23:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Clara</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Platonic Diablogging]]></category>

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		<description><![CDATA[My daily blogging experiment was rudely interrupted by a Labor Day Week-end trip to Chicago (which, by the way, yielded an exciting new picture of the torpedo seafish mentioned in the Meno; scroll down to see the new picture).  But I am still pretty much on track with reading. First: the end of the Charmides [...]<img alt="" border="0" src="http://stats.wordpress.com/b.gif?host=classicsblogging.wordpress.com&amp;blog=5698138&amp;post=389&amp;subd=classicsblogging&amp;ref=&amp;feed=1" width="1" height="1" />]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My daily blogging experiment was rudely interrupted by a Labor Day Week-end trip to Chicago (which, by the way, yielded an exciting new picture of the t<a href="http://wp.me/pnUls-5O" target="_blank">orpedo seafish</a> mentioned in the Meno; scroll down to see the new picture).  But I am still pretty much on track with reading.<span id="more-389"></span></p>
<p>First: the end of the <em>Charmides </em>did include the heartening statement that if a &#8220;science of sciences&#8221; were possible, then &#8220;he who has it will not only learn more easily whatever he learns, but will perceive everything more plainly, since besides the particular things that he learns he will behold the science&#8221; (172b).  However Socrates ends up rejecting this as a definition of <em>temperance</em>, which he seems to assume is something more limited.  But my hopes for the metacognitive project I mentioned last time were encouraged.</p>
<p>The <em>Charmides </em>does not end up producing a satisfactory definition of <em>sophrosune</em>, but it does indicate toward the end that knowledge of good and evil might be the key to happiness (again, this path isn&#8217;t followed through because it seems to the interlocutors to go beyond the concept of temperance).  In the <em>Laches</em>, also, knowledge ends the debate, this time over what constitutes <em>andreia</em> (&#8220;courage&#8221; but more literally &#8220;manliness&#8221;).  Nicias has suggested that true courage consists of knowledge of &#8220;what is to be dreaded or dared, either in war or in anything else&#8221; (195).  He thus denies that boldness, in the absence of knowledge, is really courage.  (He also sidesteps the notion of action in response to knowledge: if one knows &#8220;what is to be dreaded&#8221; and rationally runs away, is that courage?).</p>
<p>As in the <em>Charmides, </em>however, Socrates&#8217; questioning shows that this definition will end up being too broad for the more limited notion of courage.  I&#8217;m not sure I buy his argument, but his claim is that &#8220;what is to be dreaded&#8221; must be knowledge of future things (since &#8220;fear is expectation of coming evil&#8221; 198b).  But (Socrates claims) you can&#8217;t really separate out knowledge of future things from knowledge of present or past things, but such knowledge would have to be &#8220;knowledge of goods and evils not merely in the future, but also in the present and the past&#8221; (199b); thus again we have reached something that looks way more comprehensive than simply &#8220;courage.&#8221;</p>
<p>An entertaining feature of the dialogue is the characterization of Laches and Nicias, the two principal interlocutors: Laches in particular is clearly very competitive and if his definition is going to be shot down by Socrates, then by gum Nicias&#8217;s definition had better be as well.  Nicias is portrayed as much more careful and rational, although in the end he also fails to define courage satisfactorily.  But both are also interesting figures because of what we know of their careers: Laches led the first expedition against Sicily, and was prosecuted on his return for having failed to subdue it; Nicias led the second, and was executed by the Sicilians after the horrendous defeat of the Athenian forces in 413.  One of the most painful parts of Thucydides&#8217; narrative of the failed expedition is toward the end, when it is clear the Athenians have been defeated, but there still seems to be some chance of them getting their surviving forces home safely.  But Nicias is spooked by a lunar eclipse, and is advised by his priests to delay for twenty-seven days; this delay &#8212; pretty clearly inspired by the attempt to understand &#8220;what is to be dreaded or dared&#8221; &#8212; proves disastrous.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s hard to tell whether Plato intended the historical careers of his interlocutors to color our response to their dialogues; Nicias is in many ways a tragic figure, and was certainly highly respected in Athens for his caution and his military success.  Perhaps that reputation, in the fourth century, is all Plato&#8217;s audience would have associated with him.  But it&#8217;s hard not to let the disaster of Sicily influence the way we respond to him.</p>
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